An Instance of Yeshua (Jesus) Teaching Torah

In the Gospels, if we read it with our eyes open, we can see clearly that Yeshua taught/clarified and explained Torah.  Here, in Jn. 7, during the Feast of Sukkot (Booths), Yeshua begins teaching mid-way through the feast.

"Now when the feast was already half over, Jesus went to the temple courts* and began to teach.* Then the Jews were astonished, saying, “How does this man possess knowledge, because he* has not been taught?” So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not mine, but is from the one who sent me. If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my* teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself."

The Jews were clearly impressed and amazed at his teaching.  He was not teaching to do away with the Law (Torah), otherwise they would have torn their clothes and decried him a blasphemer.  But this is not what happened (Jn. 7:19-24).

We are not told all of what Yeshua taught here, though we are given a glimpse of some ( vv. 19-24), exhorting the Jews to follow Moses and KEEP Torah!  All His teaching had a point, we can safely assume it had something to do with the feast of Sukkot, and His role in fulfilling it (c.f.. Matt. 5:17-19).  The Apostle John points out in the beginning of his Gospel account, that the incarnated Torah (Word of God) became flesh and tabernacle (or "sukkahed") among us (Jn. 1:14).

"Now on the last day of the feast—the great day—Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me, and let him drink, the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)"

We see here that indeed Yeshua was teaching on how He is the substance of what the feast is pointing to.  He's not saying "Quit keeping the feast," but explaining how He is the fulfillment (Mt. 5:17).

Yeshua taught we are to keep His commandments, and the word (of His time, he did not supercede it, He WAS it) commands we observe Yhwh's feasts (Lev. 23; Mt. 5:17-19).

Ps. 47- a Preview of the Return of Messiah

Yesterday I was reading in Psalm 47, and I was just totally amazed.  The Yhwh opened my eyes to see or realize things in this Psalm I don't ever recall seeing before!  This Psalm is a Psalm of rejoicing in Yhwh, the holy one of Israel, and pictures Him working deliverance, or salvation, for the people of Israel, and indeed, Himself being king over Israel, putting them in their land.

The reason Protestants misunderstand, is because they reject (in the majority) the Tanakh as the basis, or foundation of the Brit Hadaschah (New Testament, or Covenant).  and they think it is otherwise!

First off, the Hebrew scriptures start their verse numbering in the Psalms with the superscription, which English Bibles usually just take as the section heading or leave it as 'superscript.'  But this tells us in Psalm 47 that this song was "written for the music director (which, gentlemen, the choir in the temple was made up of men!)

v.1 1 All you peoples, clap your hands.b

Shout to God with a voice of rejoicing.

In Philippians, we are taught by Rabbi Paul to "rejoice in the Yhwh always, I will say it again, rejoice!" (Phil. 3:1, 4:4).

2 For Yahweh Most High is awesome,c

a great king over all the earth.

A common Biblical theme, that Yhwh Sabaoth (of hosts~ angelic armies), is king over the earth, the most high, Elyon; and, He is to be feared, something lost in most Christian circles!

3 He subdues peoples under us

and nations under our feet.

4 He chooses for us our inheritance,

the pride of Jacob whom he loves. Selah

He, Yhwh Sabaoth, is the one who subdues or conquerors, Israel's enemies under them. He chose the land of Canaan, or Palestine (old Philistia~ Israel's ancient foe), to give to the children of Ja'acob, and it is their Pride!

5 God has gone up with a shout,

Yahweh with the sound of a [shofar].

6 Sing praises to God, sing praises.

Sing praises to our king, sing praises.

7 For God is king of all the earth.

Sing praises with understanding.d

8 God reigns over nations;

God sits on his holy throne.

Here we see God, Elyon Sabaoth comes, of goes up with a shout! With the sound of a trumpet (in hebrew,shofar, the ram's horn) the instrument given by the Israelis' when going into battle. This is where, beyond acknowledging that Israel's peace, military dominance, and possession of the land of ancient Canaan are from Yhwh, we see in verse five the rallying signal given by Yhwh Himself for the final battle (also known as Armageddon, when the nations of the world are gathered against Israel, synonymous with Psalm 83?).

One reason why this passage is so powerful, is that we can see here it's parallel teaching by Rabbi Paul, in the Brit Hadashah. 1 Thessalonians 4 - 

16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

This seems to parallel the eschatological (end time) teaching of the deliverance of Yhwh found in Psalm 47.  and for those with a Biblical worldview... this is bringing to completion the good news, the Euanggelion, the consummation of Yhwh's plan, the covenant He made with Abra'am, Yisac, and Ja'acob.  

The forgiveness of sins, based upon the suffering of the Messiah, the son of man, and justification because of imputation of His righteousness is based upon the teaching found in the Prophet Isaiah, chapter 53.  And to this Rabbi Paul also alludes in his letter to the diasporoa Romans in Romans 3:19-31.

 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be snatched away at the same time together with them in the clouds for a meeting with the Lord in the air, and thus we will be together with the Lord always.

And so with Rabbi Paul's teaching, in accordance with the basis of the Christian faith, the Tanakh, Rabbi Paul teaches that the dead in Messiah, and then those living believers, will be caught up to be forever with Messiah, as he places His people in the land of Yisrael never more to be uprooted, under His physical reign upon the earth!

There are so many other scriptures in the Tanakh and the Brit Hadashah, connecting these teachings, but for now, it will have to be another post.

Rabbi Paul also speaks about the salvation of all Israel in Romans 11, which ties in with Psalm 47.  Another hint for those who are hungry: the "fullness of the Gentiles" is explained to us what that is in Genesis 48:19 where Jacob blesses the children of Joseph.

Let those who have ears hear!  Shalom!

The Apostasy - Millenia old?

 2 Thess. 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [from www.biblegateway.com]

The great apostasy, which Rabbi Paul told us would happen before the coming of the Torah-less one! You say, "Chris, you are being so extreme calling the Antichrist the Torah-less one!"  Am I?  In English Bibles, the word translated to denote God's revelation of His ways and His character to man was translated as Law in the English language, to convey the depth and overarching supremacy of Yhwh's commands and their reach within and throughout creation.

But today that meaning has been lost.  In our lands of laws and rights, or lack thereof, we have come to see the Biblical word Law in a negative light, and so much so that a key Christians motto is "Christ has set me free from the Law!"  Let me suggest that the reason this is so is because Christians were separated from the Jews and therefore no longer understand the context of the Biblical authors in which they wrote.  The Biblical authors, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote out of a Hebraic theological context.

So many of us, who discuss the importance of interpreting scripture "in context" and "knowing the context" are missing the very deepest, and first and foremost context of all, the Hebraic worldview of the children of Abraham!  

 This issue is of first relevance when we come to the description of the arch-rebel against Yhwh, who has been working throughout all of human history to create an army of rebels, and destroy the Elohim's creation, and steal his praise (Is. 14:13-14).  Rabbi Paul describes him as the (as conveyed in the English text) the "lawless one."  I already dealt with this in a previous post.  To the mind of a Jewish rabbi (a "Hebrew of Hebrews" Phil. 3:5), certainly this meant "Torah-less one"  that is, one without and opposed to the revealed will of Yhwh Elohim.  

Now today the church says, "I am not under the Torah!  I have been set free from the Torah!"  Is this not the spirit of the Antichrist already, the son of perdition?  So we see that the spirit of the Antichrist is already in the Church, and most of "the Church" is ready for , and indeed, already under, the great deception!

So this brings us to the title of our post.  The apostasy, the great falling away... did it recently begin historically, as America banned bibles from school in the 60s, and the country saw a massive increase in sexual immorality and crime?  Or did it begin with the advent of human science ('knowledge'), discovering all it could learn about reality apart from the revealed will of the Creator?  Or did it begin, and this is what I think, when Christians were separated from their Jewish brethren in Messiah, and from the tribes and customs of the teachings of the Torah?

For what is the greata falling away supposed to mean?  Falling away from the ways of Yahweh, and from sound doctrine?  In the minds of the Hebrew authors of scripture, what denotes sound doctrine (2 Tim. 4:3)?  The Tanakh, the Torah.  

2 Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, (emphasis mine)

This is the Bible Adonai Yeshua used.  And again, He affirms it in John 17:17 when He says, "Yhwh, sanctify them by Your truth, Your Word is Truth."  

As Christians, followers of Messiah, we find ourselves in a bind.  We claim to follow the Truth, the person of Messiah Yeshua, who claims to be the Word in the flesh (Jn. 1:14), but yet we also claim to be free of the "Law," the Torah, found in the Tanakh, which Yeshua believed to be the Truth!  And what part of scripture is most often contested and rejected or so poorly taught in Christian churches today?  It's what Christians know as the Old Testament, which is really the Former Testament, or Covenant (that's still very much in force and validity, except where Messiah satisfied its requirements for our justification (Rom. 3:23-25).

So I propose, the great falling away did not begin only recently historically, but began ages ago... as the apostle John said: 1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 

Go back, and read your Bibles anew with this new understanding, that Yeshua came to reveal to us the Tanakh, and the Torah (the instruction)!  We were not set free from Elohim's instruction (His Torah), but only from the curse of the Torah (for disobedience, the torah of sin and death).  Apply this understanding to your Bible study, and you will find a whole NEW BIBLE, one you have most likely never seen before!!!

A message to the Church: WWJD? Keep Torah!

It's hard to argue with.  The sinless Son of God... how did he remain or achieve sinlessness?  Unlike all his ancestors in the flesh, the people of Israel, Jesus kept the Law of God perfectly!  And for this reason, He was able to offer His life up as a sin offering on the Lord's feast of Passover (Pesach), the spotless lamb of God.

Keeping the Law of God is really quite a feat!  The Jews had all sorts of rules and traditions, "laws" they passed down on top of God's revelation in order to safeguard the keeping of the Law.  Ever since I have been alive, the Church and American Christians have claimed that Yeshua came and fulfilled the Torah in order to "set us free from the Law!"  But as I began to study eschatology,(the study of last things), I began to notice a few things.

Certainly a major component to Biblical prophecy is when the usurper of God's throne, the Evil One takes throne during the last "Seven" (shabua), which is prophesied by an angel of righteousness to Daniel, telling of the 70 "Sevens" decreed for the people of Israel to finish transgression, bring in everlasting righteousness and atonement for sin, and to anoint the holy Temple (Dan. 9:24).  So from this prophecy, and especially as these times are upon us, it seems that the "Old Covenant" is not out of business; God is not finished with it!  In fact, part of Moses' prohecy in Deut. 30:1-8, at the end of the Torah, extended down to this very day, 3000 years later, after the Jews and Israelites were dispersed into all corners of the earth, and began to be brought back to the land promised to Israel!

Quickly, the other thing I noticed was in Zechariah, speaking of the LORD's return, when the people of Israel "look on Him whom they have pierced," (12:10); Mashiach Yeshua sets up His millennial reign on earth, and "all who are left of the nations that came up against Jerusalem (some will be left!) will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the feast of Sukkot [of booths]." (Zech. 14:16)

So if for the 1,000 years that Jesus is reigning on earth(!!!!  He is, He IS returning!!!!) He will require the inhabitants of the earth to worship and celebrate the feast of Sukkot, or Booths, commemorating Yhwh's deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt into the promised land (which, Egypt Biblically became synonymous with "sin", thus signifying Yeshua's salvation, His deliverance from sin).

Now if these things are going on, WE in the Gentile Protestant Church don't have it all figured out!  I thought something was up!  While in seminary, I remember our professors telling us that the term "Law" in the Bible, was really a poor translation choice for the word "Torah" in the Jewish Tanakh.  A better translation for the term "Torah" would be "instruction."  

So let's apply this dynamic.  "Yeshua came to set us free from keeping God's instruction!  Yay!!!"  Now, how does that sound?  Pretty ludicrous doesn't it?  We say, "Oh Jesus came to set us free from keeping the Law (Torah/instruction) of God!"  Following that logic, it makes it clear that we can live any way we want, and claim salvation.  Not far from me, there is a church with a female pastor, and when she or the church is confronted with the verse, "An overseer [i.e. pastor] should be the husband of one wife, (1 Tim. 3:2)" the immediate response is Gal. 3:20, "we have been set free from the Law!"  But it's funny isn't it, both statements are taken from the New Testament!  What have they really been set free from? 

The problem with this logic is, and I'm tempted to say to them; "Well great!  There's a couple of congregants here I really don't like, so it'd be okay if I killed them!  I mean, we're set free from the Law right?  And isn't the prohibition against murder in the Law, I mean following that would be legalism!"  And you could make that argument about adultery, abortion, murder, homosexuality, etc. etc. ad inifinitum.  

Did Jesus really set us free from the Law?  Let us look at some of the scriptures now with this new understanding.  In Matt. 5:17-19, Jesus says "I did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets.  I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. Amen I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Torah until all is accomplished.  Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever keeps and teaches them, shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

On its face, does that sound like Yeshua is saying "Be free from the Law of God my child!  Be Free!"  No, it doesn't.  In fact, it sounds just the opposite!  We can also see this with the apostle to the Gentiles, Rabbi Paul, as he tries to set out this faith in Messiah to the Jews and dispersed Israelites (remember, the house of Israel was dispersed into the nations circa 720 B.C.) in Rome.  Rabbi Paul says, "What then, should we continue in sin, so that grace may increase?  May it never be!"  Let's remind ourselves, how do we know what sin is?  From God's Torah, His Word!  Again, Rabbi Paul says, "What shall we say then, Is the Torah sin?  May it never be, on the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Torah; for I would not have known about coveting, if the Torah had not said, 'You shall not covet!'" (Romans 7:7).

"But Christopher", you might be thinking, "Are you saying we need to keep the Law in order to be saved?"  Not at all!  Look, Rabbi Paul deals with this also in Romans 3:19-31.  And this really helps if, when you're reading the word "Law," to interpret it as "Torah" or "instruction."  The Apostle Paul taught that we are "saved by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves.  It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).  In Romans 3:20-22a, 24, Rabbi Paul teaches us:

"because by the works of the Torah no flesh shall be justified in His sight (that is, made righteous, or "saved"); for through the Torah comes the knowledge of sin" [... hence, in order to live life free of sin, like Yeshua, the Son of the living God!] But now, apart from the Torah, the righteousness of  God has been manifested [see Jhn. 1:1-3], being witnessed by the Torah and the Prophets.  Even the Righteousness of God through faith in Yeshua the Messiah for all who believe... being justified [i.e., declared righteous] as a gift by His grace through the Redemption which is in Yeshuah the Messiah" 

We've been SO conditioned, and I think set up for the end-time deception through our use of the word "Law," and it's secular usage (1 Jn. 5:19).  Paul says in verse 31, "Do we then nullify the Torah through faith?  May it NEVER be!  On the contrary, we establish the Torah!"

"What!" you're thinking, "We (Protestant Evangelical Christians) ESTABLISH THE TORAH!!!????"  That is what Paul is telling us!  In Leviticus 23, the proscribed feasts are not called "the feasts of the Jews," but rather, "the feasts of the LORD... even these are My feasts (Lev. 23:2)."

Here's another verse for consideration.  Adonai Yeshua, when giving his high priesetly prayer to the Father, in John 17, says "Sanctify by Your truth, Your Word is truth."  There was no New Testament in existence at the time, nor would the first epistles be written for another 20-30 years.  What Word was He talking about? The revelation given from God, the Jews know as the Tanakh, containing the Torah.  Yeshua said, "[It] is truth" (17:17).

Do Christans not claim to follow the Truth?  We do.  We claim to be people of the Truth.  And we define sin from reading from the Truth.... yet we do not follow the Truth.  We do not establish it, as Paul told us through the Holy Spirit (Ruach hakodesh)(!)  But it seems that there is a growing awakening in our time, as the number of Messianic congregations increase throughout the world, and believers begin to follow Yhwh in Truth.  The LORD is opening people's eyes to understand His Truth.  

This is one reason I have a hard time with the church using "Sunday school" material, which really has become a discipleship material, but has kept believers from seeking understanding of the Scriptures from the Holy Spirit Himself, because the Spirit is the One who gives understanding (John 14:26), not Sunday school quarterlies!  It seems to me that Sunday school quarterlies have kept the church "boxed in" to a predetermined set of beliefs, much like the Jehovah's Witnesses, which have a commentary at the back of their bibles to tell them how to interpret or belief their scriptures from the Watchtower Society, or the Pope, who tells his congregants what and how to believe, and how he gets away with changing God's eternal Truth.  Sunday School quarterlies is a very Popish practice!

But really this Great Deception (THE Great Deception/Falling Away?) started back in the Fourth Century A.D., whcn the Christian Church was separated from the Jews, and the day of their worship was changed from the Sabbath.  The LORD commanded that we honor the Sabbath, and keep it holy.  But Emperor Constatine did not want the Christians to look like the Jews, so he changed the day of worship to Sun-day... the day of worship of the pagan sun god which can be traced back to Nimrod (Gen. 10:8-12), who became a "mighty hunter before the LORD."

Before this, Christians, Messianics and Jews all worshiped together, celebrating the feasts along with observing Torah.  Much of the current confusion in the church today, and why it looks like the world, and why it is losing its young people to the world in the name of science and through Darwinian Evolution (to which even the Pope, the supposed "Vicar of Christ" bowed)... all of this goes back to when the "Christians" were separated from the Jews by the Holy Roman Empire, i.e., the Vatican, and the Christians no longer obeyed the Spirit's command through the Apostle Paul to "establish the Torah" (Rom. 3:31).

When we recognize this fact, we began to have our eyes opened to a whole new Biblical understanding and understanding of what is and will happen in the end times, and why.  I think this is also one reason why we do not see miracles as much in the Church today... for we do not accept Deuteronomy (Second Telling of the Torah) chapter 28, as normative or true for Christians in today's church.

You might still think that I'm being fanatical and legalistic and reading the New Testament thorugh the lens of an extremist zealot.  Haha, ok... but if what I'm saying is true, wouldn't we find evidence of it in the Old Testament, the Tanakh?  After all, the LORD is the same, yesterday, today and forever, right?  What did Yhwh Himself promise of the New Covenant when it was announced through the prophets (remember, Paul mentions it testified by the Torah and the Prophets)?  Let's look in Jeremiah:  

"But this is the Covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD, 'I will put my Torah within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people" (Jer. 31:33).  

This has been one of the Deceiver's greatest deceptions that is still flying under the nose of believers today, and one of the greatest hindrances to the power of the Redeemed of Messiah on earth, as they struggle to carry out the LORD's commands.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.  For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith!"  (1 John 5:3,4)

"If you love me, you will keep My commandments."  (John 14:15)

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and disclose myself to Him."  (John 14:21)

Now, as for you, is Yhwh's Torah written on your heart?  Will you keep His commandments, and establish His Torah (Rom. 3:31), or will you perpetuate the doctrine of demons and the traditions of men over the word of God?

The Law Filled Full

Nine Tiny, Unopened Dead Sea Scrolls Found In Israel Antiquities!

Could the reason these scrolls were not "discovered" until 2014, is that they are going to play a role in the great deception, and the apostasy that will overtake the world???  Stay alert.

For the Devil so loved the Nephilim...

I hope that all my family and friends has had a wonderful Thanksgiving time with family and friends, lots of good food and time hanging out with loved ones.  I've been out of the loop for a week or so with crazy trails going on around some much needed home improvements, and getting ready for all the festivities of Thanksgiving.  But I'm back now.

A week or so ago I was reading in the Bible in 1 Chronicles, and the LORD gave me an insight which I've never heard anyone point out before... but it's because the majority of U.S. preachers do not accept the reality of the Nephilim, the human-angel-animal-plant hybrids, so their Biblical worldview does not allow them to see it.  And it's not their fault... They were raised like the rest of us, in the 20th century scientific enlightenment worldview that largely rejects supernaturalism.  This is also what much of the signers of the American Declaration of Independence were, but that's an entirely different work, to which Chris Pinto has done an outstanding job with, if you're not already familiar with him and his Noise of Thunder radio program.

1st Chronicles ch. 20 is a most interesting chapter.  It tells of encounters the post-settlement Israeli army under king David had with the giants, the Nephilim, or, descendants of Anak.  The first account is of Joab leading the army into Battle against the sons of Ammon.  Now not much is said here to indicate anything strange, until we read that David took the king's crown, which weighed one talent of gold.  We're like, okay, cool.  It was a heavy gold crown.  I can totally see that.  But the Scofield Ref. bible, (which I was using the other day) translates the measurement of this unit to be 76 lbs!!!  :-O  I said!  You just don't wear a 76 lb. object around on your head everyday, unless you have really thick neck muscles!  But this could be easily explained if he were Nephilim, which many of the people groups descended from Ham and Canaan, which lived in the region were (Gen.9:25-26; 10:15).

Next in the chapter we are told about a giant, when the Jews battled the Philistines in Gezer, named Sippai, who was a descendant of Rapha, or the Raphaim (1 Chron. 20:4).  In v. 5, we're told there was another war with the Philistines, where Elhanan killed Lahmi, the brother of the the infamous giant Goliath (1 Chron. 20:5)!  

Verse 6 tells us of a man of great stature, who had a total of 24 fingers and toes (1 Chron. 20:6).  It seems that many of the skeletons which were unearthed and many spirited away, reportedly had such features.  This giant was put to death by David's nephew, Shimea.  So all of these descendants of Anak, which Joshua had not entirely wiped out (Joshua 11:22), were finally dealt with.  The text doesn't tell us that the giants were totally wiped out, only that these mentioned were killed.  From evidential remains found around the globe, the activity on the fallen angels to deceive humanity was taking place on a global scale.  There are many sites that are exposing these facts, and they are asking questions, where are the remains at?  Why have they been kept out of the public's eye?  What purpose would the government have in withholding this sort of information?

The Bible gives us the explanation for that too.  It tells us that in the last days there will be a great deception on the earth so powerful that even the very elect would be deceived, if that were possible (evidently, it sort of sounds like it is ~ Mt. 24:24; Mk 13:22; 2 Thess. 2:3)!  But I think what Jesus and Paul are teaching here is that it will be very powerful, very deceptive, and the seeming "Christians" will be taken in by it, but not those truly called to salvation (2 Thess. 2:10-11).  But certainly, by those verses, those who do not know Jesus and His life-transforming/redeeming power will be given to the deception coming on the world.

But here's where the scriptural insight came.  Just when the Israelites have been wiping out the remaining giants living in the land of Israel, the children of the gods (the fallen angels), Satan has taken notice and come to put a stop to it, and attack King David!

1 Chronicles 21:1  Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel. (emphasis mine)

So you see, the chosen people of Yahweh had been destroying whom I believe you can demonstrate scripturally are the seed of the serpent.  And while that curse (Gen. 3:15) ultimately is fulfilled in the individual seeds of Christ and the Anti-Christ, I think it is also played out in a larger scale between the children of Adam and Eve and the fallen archangel Lucifer.  And as the people of Yahweh God are killing the human-angle hybrids, the fallen angels wanted vengeance for their off spring being killed.